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neither one was any good but the muslim anti patriot was the worst choice.

:lol: OMG, funniest post ever! First off, he isn't a Muslim. Secondly, if he was a Muslim why is that a problem? Thirdly, I'm just DYING to hear why you believe he is an anti patriot. Also, please give your definition of an "anti patriot". :)

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here is a little but there is more.. if this is against some rules then delete it Tera, not trying to get a big political thing started

He wrote a couple of books it seems, One was titled From Dreams of My Father, the other was From Audacity of Hope. Here are a few lines from those books.



From Dreams of My Father:'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'


From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'


From Dreams of My Father:'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'


From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'


From Dreams of My Father:'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'


From Audacity of Hope:'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

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From Sunday's Televised "Meet the Press" Senator Obama was asked about

his stance on the American Flag on Sun, 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST,

General Bill Ginn' USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain why he doesn't

follow protocol when the National Anthem is played. The General also

stated to the Senator that according to the United States Code, Title

36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171... During rendition of the national anthem when

the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are expected

to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the

heart. At the very least, "Stand and Face It".


Senator Obama Live on Sunday states, "As I've said about the flag pin, I

don't want to be perceived as taking sides, Obama said 'There are a lot

of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of

oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know,

the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something

less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like To Teach

the World To Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it."We

should consider to reinvent our National Anthem as well as to redesign

our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It's my intention,

if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle

East Brethren. If we as a Nation of warring people, should conduct

ourselves as the nations of Islam, whereas peace prevails. Perhaps a

state or period of mutual concord between our governments. When I become

President, I will seek a pact or agreement to end hostilities between

those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from

disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation have placed upon the

nations of Islam an unfair injustice.


My wife disrespects the Flag for many personal reasons. Together she and

I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past, many years

ago. She has her views and I have mine". Of course now, I have found

myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put

aside my hatred. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and

offer the people a new path of hope. My wife and I look forward to

becoming our Country's First Family. Indeed, CHANGE is about to

overwhelm the United States of America.



Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you heard it right. This could possibly be

our next President.


I, for one, am speechless.


Dale Lindsborg,

Washington Post

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its all rigged, votes mean nothing



Obama Refuses to Answer Birth Certificate Lawsuit


Friday, October 24, 2008 4:16 PM


By: Kenneth R. Timmerman



A Pennsylvania lawsuit alleging that Barack Obama is not a ânatural-born citizenâ of the United States took an unusual twist this week, after a federally mandated deadline requiring Obamaâs lawyers to produce a âvaultâ copy of his birth certificate expired with no response from Obama or his lawyers.


The lawsuit, filed by former Pennsylvania Deputy Attorney General Philip J. Berg â a self-avowed supporter of Hillary Clinton â alleges that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and is thus âineligibleâ to run for president of the United States. It demands that Obamaâs lawyers produce a copy of his original birth certificate to prove that he is a natural-born U.S. citizen.


Berg's suit and allegations have set off a wave of Internet buzz and rumors, though Obama could easily have put the matter to rest by providing the federal court with the basic documentation proving he is eligible to take the oath of a president. But Obama has apparently decided to deny the court and the public that documentation.


The Constitution provides that any U.S. citizen is eligible to become president if the person is 35 years of age or older and is a natural-born citizen; that is, born in the territorial United States.


By failing to respond to the Request for Admissions and Request for the Production of Documents within 30 days, Obama has âadmittedâ that he was born in Kenya, Berg stated this week in new court filings.


Berg released a long list of âadmissionsâ he submitted to Obamaâs lawyers on Sept. 15, and asked that they produce documents relating to Obamaâs place of birth and citizenship.


Instead of responding, lawyers for Obama and the DNC asked the court to dismiss the case. But Judge R. Barclay Surrick of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania has issued no ruling in the case that would have given Obamaâs lawyers more time.


âThere are lots of legal ways to stonewall,â a well-placed Republican attorney told Newsmax, who was not authorized to comment officially on the case. âBut failing to respond is not one of them.â


âThe first thing they teach you in law school,â he added, âis donât put a complaint like this in a drawer. Thatâs how a nuisance case can become a problem.â


The 30-day deadline for defendants to comply with a discovery request is set forth in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedures.


âIt all comes down to the fact that there's nothing from the other side,â Berg said after he filed a motion on Thursday for summary judgment.


âThe admissions are there. By not filing the answers or objections, the defense has admitted everything. [Obama] admits he was born in Kenya. He admits he was adopted in Indonesia. He admits that the documentation posted online is a phony. And he admits that he is constitutionally ineligible to serve as president of the United States.â


In a contentious case, lawyers on both sides will haggle over the production of documents, and will frequently go beyond the deadlines, several lawyers told Newsmax.


âThe rules are more often complied with in the breech rather than the observance,â a senior trial attorney who has close ties to the Democrat Party, but is not involved in the current case, told Newsmax.


âLawyers frequently do not return telephone calls or meet discovery deadlines because of sheer inadvertence. Therefore, we do not consider a failure to respond as a âviolation,ââ he said.


Allegations surrounding Obamaâs place of birth have been swirling for months. Earlier this year, the Obama campaign sought to put down the rumors by making available a computer-generated Certification of Live Birth, issued in 2007 by the State of Hawaii.


Respected conservative blogger Ed Morrissey called the Berg lawsuit a âconspiracy theoryâ that had been put to rest by the Obama campaign over the summer but âhas arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere.â


However, the 2007 document produced by the Obama campaign omits key information that normally appears on birth certificates in the United States, including the name of the hospital where he was born, the size and weight of the baby, and sometimes the name of the doctor who delivered him.


In addition, the critics of the 2007 document note that Obama's father is described as âAfrican,â a term used today. The formal language in official documents at the time â 1961 â would have identified his race as âNegroâ or âColored.â


The Web site snarkybytes.com has produced a vault copy of a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth from 1963, issued by the Hawaii Department of Health.


In addition to naming the hospital and more details about the baby, the 1963 vault copy also includes the âusual residence of the mother,â and the âusual occupationâ of the father. None of this information appears on the 2007 Live Birth certificate produced by the Obama campaign.


Berg has been a perennial political candidate in Pennsylvania, having run in Democrat primaries for attorney general, lieutenant governor, governor, and other offices without success. He served as deputy attorney general of the State of Pennsylvania from 1972-1980.


His credibility was tarnished by work he did for the far-left â9/11 for the Truthâ campaign, which alleged in a federal lawsuit that the collapse of the twin towers in New York was caused by âcontrolled demolitionâ ordered by the president of the United States.


Nevertheless, in recent weeks, lawsuits have been filed in seven additional states demanding that Barack Obama produce an original vault copy of his birth certificate, to dispel the rumors that he is not a natural-born United States citizen.


The latest suits have been filed in state and federal courts in Hawaii, Washington, California, Florida, Georgia, New York, and Connecticut to compel Obama to release his birth records.


Lawsuits in Washington and Georgia are seeking state superior courts to force the statesâ secretary of state, as the chief state elections officer, to require Obama to produce original birth records from Hawaii, or else decertify him as a candidate for the presidency.


Ironically, Obama mentions his birth certificate in passing on Page 26 of his 1995 memoir, âDreams of My Father.â âI discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,â he wrote.


Lawyers for Obama and the DNC did not return calls for comment on the current status of the case, or explain why the Obama campaign did not simply put to rest the whole controversy by releasing the birth certificate that Obama apparently cherished as a teenager.


In the past, questions about Sen. John McCain's legal status have arisen. McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone at a U.S. Army hospital. McCain had legal experts vet his constitutional qualifications, and he also disclosed a copy of his birth certificate.

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:lol: I'm the one who doesn't do research and yet you're the one who doesn't even know he is Christian.


But I am really interested in hearing why a Muslim is considered bad.


And so if I'm reading what you posted correctly, you are saying he is "anti patriot" because of things he did with regards to the US flag? I thought being a patriot was doing everything you can to make your country the best country it could be. :o So yeah, please give me YOUR definition of a good patriot.

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:lol: k, no worries. Yeah, I'll go back to believing everything I'm told as long as its the truth and I'll follow the rest as long as that means not being prejudice against an entire religion and understanding that patriotism has nothing to do with a flag or a pin but ratherdoing what you can to make your country better. :thumbsup: Edited by emoney

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The thing that I find most interesting about this is that he barely missed the deadline of his birthplace.

Hawaii, being part of the US only since '59 and he was born in '61 :P


Anyways from what I read, Frank, it seems you are the one who follows what is being told to you. The thing you must understand is that he has done nothing that many Americans and very large Patriots do daily.


With the Flag pin. People made such a big deal about Bush wearing one during his last campaign that he didn't want to have the same problem. He wanted to show who he really was and not just some expected image of who we want him to be. If he doesn't normally wear the pin why would he try to make us believe he does?

Secondly when it comes to the Natl. Anthem, many people, including myself, thing that its the wrong song to use to symbolize America. Its a song about a single, and very small and quick battle that happened during the Civil War. This country was founded on more than just 1 war and more than just the deaths of 1 battle. It was founded on the deaths of many Americans during many battles and wars. There has actually been talk about about changing the Anthem to the song America The Beautiful and if it gets to the Supreme Courts I could easily see it passing.

You must also understand that depending on the situation, flag burning is a sign of Patriotism. If for example your government is trying to go against the US Constitution it shows you are against that Government and is a way of making a stand.

Another thing is that it could easily be misconstrued into what it is not. I know here I have seen many times a flag burning going on at one of the American Legion. Have you ever read what you are to do with a flag if it ever touches the ground? You are to BURN it. This is the reason that when you watch flag folding being done that it is done by 2 people rather than 1 and it is always kept off the ground.


As for him being Muslim or Christian. I do believe that he has made it public that he is Christian but I do not believe that is the truth. I believe that is some show that he made to gain popular vote. However I do not agree that its a bad thing to be Muslim.

Think about it on a different scale and you might see what I mean.

Many of us hate Muslims because we associate them with Terrorists and those uneducated people believe that all Muslims are Terrorists. So using this sort of thinking does it mean that all Catholics are child molesters? Think about it.. A few priests get caught fondling little boys therefore all Catholics are molesters!!! Well in all honesty there isn't a whole lot of difference between Catholics and Christians outside who they pray to so does this mean that all Christians are child molesters also? Probably not..

Same for Muslims. Just because a few people who happen to have that same religion doesn't mean that the entire group is bad. Just those specific few.


Sometimes you cannot just listen to what people tell you. There are always 3 sides to every story. The left, the right and the truth!

To find the truth you must take a bit from each side...


Now that you have read all this you must know that I was never and still am not an Obama supporter. I just believe that many people are completely misinformed when it comes to matters like this.

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Actually, I really didn't think religion was a big factor in the US presidental election. Sure there may have been a certain sect (the die hard republican fear mongerers) who mislabled him Muslim in hopes that it would convince the Islamophobes to not vote for him, but as the election results show, at least a majority of voters didn't get caught up in his religion "debate". And even if they did question his religion, I'm sure many of them felt as I did, in that I could give a crap what religion someone is.


Seperation of Church and State, while beaten down by 8 years of the Bush administration, still is in effect last I checked.

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Believe it or not religon play a very large part in the presidency and elections.

The reason why is that you tend to live your life and make your decisions based on your beliefs and with the majority of the country being Catholics/Christians they are going to more likely vote for someone who shares their same ideas/beliefs.

If you are an Atheist and run for office you would lose alot of votes from the religious groups because they can't think how you do and therefore will think that if your life decision is not a FOR GOD idea then how can they trust you will do the right thing when it comes to some situations.


There is a separation of Church and State but it was never meant the way people are reading it now. Over time, while the words have stayed the same, the meaning of those words has changed. For example.. back in those days "BAD" actually meant "BAD" and not "GOOD". Now thats an extreme example but the same works for other words. Over time their meanings change and things are interpreted differently.

The entire point of the separation of Church and State was 2 fold.

1. To never make laws that would limit someone based on their religion.

2. To never force a belief on another.


However the Government was built on the foundation of Christianity and many of the laws we have are based on that same belief system. Personally I am an Atheist and have been for years. While I may not believe in a "GOD" I do believe that a good way to live your life is set by the Bible. Basically treating everyone as they wish to be treated is how I live my life.

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I agree, but what I meant was that at least in this election people needed so badly to break away from the Bush administration's ideals and principles and philosophies (many of which were a merging of Church and State) that even if voters were a bit unsure as to Obama's religion or religious principles, they still voted for him. Sure, you are right that people may tend to vote with their religion, at least historically, but at least in my opinion in this election it was very far down the list of priorities. The initial reason he even had a chance at the primary was because of his anti Iraq war stance. Then of course his economic plan combined with an awful negative campaign strategy of McCain sealed it for him. And of course the fact he won the election without being overly religious.


I know that one of my main reasons to vote for Obama was because of McCain's running mate being such a gung-ho church nut, that she appeared, at least in that realm, even worse than Bush. I think Bush used religion to win to elections, but didn't necessarily believe it, whereas Palin believed all the religious stuff she was saying. Which was rather scary for me... wait, so I guess religion did play a big part in it for me, lol.

Edited by emoney

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